Respect to Marshal and Senior Marshals of the club

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:41 pm

It was at the request of your Marshal this was discussed openly which I have no problem with.

I am afraid you have been terribly miss informed, at no time did I ever say to any of them I am the leader and not listen to them come on Iguana I ended up on a horse racing track listening to them, if I had not we would have ended up in Al Katim on the hard surface which was less than 11 Km from us not Al Faya 20 plus Km from us. When it was first mentioned that we need to plan another route out I agreed without any question at all.

As for the Army comment our officers do inform us not just do as they please our rules (the military) apply to all even our most senior officers no exceptions.

The Marshals are leaders by their position alone, and I do view them as leaders and I truly respect those who have demonstrated their skills, teaching and leadership abilities. I place a lot of trust in you and the club as to whom you have chosen to be leaders but it is me and my family out there with them so yes they still have to earn our respect.

So what 1% problem of any kind required the marshal to answer for me on the radio?????

My comment about leaving the club was due to the actions of one marshal not the management of the club. But now knowing the rules and procedures do not apply to marshals is concerning. Planning any trip without all the information is only a partial plan. The extra cars does effect the route taken some routes are just to soft after the first 5 or 6 cars chew up the sand.

As for me being pissed not angry I am human and for sure will not always get along with everyone yes I was pissed again at the actions of one person but I am over it trust me. Do you want me to just smile and tell you everything is just peachy or do you want to know the truth. I told you I take responsibility for loosing my temper I will handle it different in the future lesson learned. But at least consider that I have never lost my temper as long as I have been a member of this club maybe you could take this into consideration and come to the realization that some people just clash its life. I think most people whom have done trips with me in the club and out know how I handle myself during trying times, I have and will always be there for anyone in need and sweat right beside them to resolve any problem. Adiga (please forgive the spelling if it is miss spelled as I am only a Marine) you may not believe it but I would even be by your side if you needed assistance sweating right there with you.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:48 pm

Jax very little clarification is required if you read the whole post and not take a portion of a statement out of context.

Guys and gals get over your issue with respect I have never shown or treated anyone in this club from marshal to new comer with anything but respect but be cautious you get what you sew I will not be the sheep you all wish for right is right and wrong is wrong ask yourself why did Tom get so upset this trip when not on others even those with much more dramas such as role overs. it is nice to see you all rally to defend one of your fellow marshals it is even admirable. But you must face the truth you are not always right it is just a hard fact that comes with being human.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:08 pm

This is a request to all of you that are and have been involved in this discussion. Please dont use the forum and the written word as it can so easily be misunderstandings and harsh words which doesnt lead anywhere. One person writes something that is received as something complete different through someone else eyes.
I have no opinion in this specific issue as I dont have the facts but I love this club and its members and I hate seing it getting diversed based on discussions over the net and in the forum.
Please call to a personal meeting where both sides can explain and all involved can have a discussion about it. Hopefully you will be able to agree and we that were not involved can get an update afterwards of the output. In my opinion that would be the best way to move forward.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:15 pm

You could not be more correct especially when I am writing as it is not my strong point. I stated I am ready to meet just call the time and place.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:28 pm

Thank You Jax you are correct without rules and procedures that are followed by EVERYONE chaos does prevail.

Lionbar · Post by **Lionbar** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:17 pm

There have been some valid comments stated perfectly from many people on all sides here, its very gracious that it be brought out into public, but as previously stated, I also believe that this is the wrong way to go.

There is a saying, there are 3 sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth.
I feel that a round table discussion with all parties concerned and those who were present is the way to go not brawling it out in full view of others.

I have the upmost respect for all parties involved, I have been on many drives with many Marshalls and have always felt in safe hands. Tom, I have taken quite a few trips with you and undoubtably you are always one who steps up to the plate in any situation and gives 101% till the job is done.
You all have my due respect.

From what I have read here, there was a gross breakdown in communication, and tooing & froing on the forum is not going to help achieve a viable solution.

You can tell me to 'get lost' but everyone here has an interest in the group, we are a family and all families have some kind of friction, lets get passed this. My tuppence worth!

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:34 pm

Well, It started with a small request and ended up with a looooooong discussion.

Agree with Viking, the discussion over the net will be endless and might pass the wrong message (It actually did) .. So we should continue discussion during the next trip

As you said Tom, we are all humans, we do mistakes ... In some trips Marshals and Senior Marshals and even founders take the wrong decisions. However, we always listen to each other and discuss and agree on corrective steps. Some times, we plan a route for a trip and just decide on the meeting point to change the route if we see that the cars or the drivers cannot handle this route .. Some times, a leading Marshal receives a phone call to change the route and go to another area in order to meet another group in BBQ time. We just react to the requirements and don't stick to our route, this is TEAM WORK which is one of the best things that AD4x4 can do and this is the main reason for our success.

Anyway, I think that lesson learned from this discussion by all of us .. Lets work on corrective steps rather than just keep on discussing the same issue again and again.

See you next trip, where we can discuss this face to face for better communication.

HummerGirl · Post by **HummerGirl** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:28 pm

Whilst I was not on the trip, my comment is, Iguana, if you want to quote a member, make sure it is from a posting on here and not a PM, I can see that you have quoted Tom (you have used Italics) and that is not anywhere in the written form on here in this thread, if you want to quote, use the whole version in which it was written, this would make it diplomatic, without it, you can be posting from numerous different sources.

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:36 pm

Thanks for the lesson HG. Next time, I will make sure what to write and be a good boy.

However, I am quoting the verbal comments of Tom during his discussion with the other 2 Marshals which he also confirmed some of them in his next post.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:54 pm

Iguana, unless you were there and heard me say these things it is hear say. You should take care as to quote hear say as you have to assume it is the truth. And we all know how that breaks down.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:08 pm

Guys
A couple of posts ago you all agreed on that this was not a good way of discussing this kind of issues and now you are there again 8O

Lionbar · Post by **Lionbar** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:17 pm

Viking wrote:Guys
A couple of posts ago you all agreed on that this was not a good way of discussing this kind of issues and now you are there again 8O

I agree with Eric, this has been viewed 566 times @ this moment in time, it is sure generating interest, but is this the kind of interest we want to generate??
Come on guys lets get back to where we were 48 hours ago.
Somebody save us please.

Yehia · Post by **Yehia** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:55 pm

Come on guys and girls what happened to you, whenever I miss a trip you end up fighting .Ok starting next week I will be in every trip, so calm down please.

Now come to the serious talk
Tom, I have been in many trips with you including your first trip with the club. You are a nice person a great off-road driver and a leader by nature

Jax & Mike you have the right to be upset because of what Tom said about Marshals but sure you know very well that he did not mean to attack anyone personally and what he said was only a result of a state of fury. You are also nice Marshals and understand how leading trips is a difficult task

Iguana , I will not talk about the relation between me and you because almost everyone knows it and let those who do not know (use their imagination)

I am not here to agree or disagree with any party as I was not in the trip I just want to reinstate one important value

This club has become the family for most of us; as we are living away from our real families. Even those who are living with a spouse and children they miss the feeling of being a part of the big family (cousins, nieces, nephews……) which we all feel when we are all together in our trips. Almost a year ago we were very happy to be 1000+ members, we had so many nice trips together, I guess no one will forget the New Year’s Trip in Liwa when we had a fantastic celebration with 90+ cars. I am afraid to say that some of those who were with us last year are no more with us for different reasons and I feel very sad when I see that we might lose some other nice members.

In Arabic, there is a line of poetry which says:
إذا كنت في كل الامور معاتبا صديقك لم تلق الذي لا تعاتبه
The translation: If you blame your friends for each mistake you will end up blaming the whole world.
Let us not blame each other for mistakes because mistakes will continue to take place as long as we are still breathing. One humble request from those whole feel some bitterness due to what happened in the last trip, let us all meet in next Friday trip and have a nice time together as a big family in which (EVERY ONE IS RESPECTED) and by the way , my Tea Shop will be ready.

I did not mean to be sentimental or write a Piece of Egyptian Drama but all what I wrote really comes out of heart because I LOVE AD 4X4.

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:14 pm

Lionbar, Viking, Yehia and Tom:

This was my last comment to close the subject ... Was it clear?

I was just answering HGs comment .. Don't actually know what point she wants to proove

iguana wrote:Well, It started with a small request and ended up with a looooooong discussion.

Agree with Viking, the discussion over the net will be endless and might pass the wrong message (It actually did) .. So we should continue discussion during the next trip

As you said Tom, we are all humans, we do mistakes ... In some trips Marshals and Senior Marshals and even founders take the wrong decisions. However, we always listen to each other and discuss and agree on corrective steps. Some times, we plan a route for a trip and just decide on the meeting point to change the route if we see that the cars or the drivers cannot handle this route .. Some times, a leading Marshal receives a phone call to change the route and go to another area in order to meet another group in BBQ time. We just react to the requirements and don't stick to our route, this is TEAM WORK which is one of the best things that AD4x4 can do and this is the main reason for our success.

Anyway, I think that lesson learned from this discussion by all of us .. Lets work on corrective steps rather than just keep on discussing the same issue again and again.

See you next trip, where we can discuss this face to face for better communication.

adiga · Post by **adiga** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:49 pm

Guys, as far as I know ....HG not in town and not interested any more for off roading !!!
What is happening ??