Respect to Marshal and Senior Marshals of the club

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:21 pm

I had several complains from Marshals and Senior Marshals of the club that their decision or comment during a trip is not respected and members just keep on doing what ever they want even after being warned.

Please note that the Marshals are the Senior Management of the club, the Senior Marshals represent the board of directors of the club. All of you are working in respectable organizations and know what those title means and what are their level of authority.

The Marshal and Senior Marshals have the full authority from the club Founders to act on their behalf during their absence. Disrespecting a Marshal comment or request or some times and order means that you disrespect the club which is not acceptable to us.

Some members feel that they are Elite and knows better than the Marshals or the management of the club. This kind of attitude is not acceptable and not welcomed in AD4x4. Suggestions are always welcomed from any member. We always listen and take actions according to members suggestions. So you are most welcome to suggest.

The Marshals are just giving you their time and efforts to teach you all they know, so at least a little respect is the minimum pay back.

Please refer to club level of authority, which is always updated according to new changes in the club
http://www.ad4x4.com/modules.php?name=F ... 8097#58097

BouJebba · Post by **BouJebba** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:53 pm

Dear Iguana,

May I add that all marshals are benevolent and have no benefit from leading and organizing trips and that the recommendations they issue are for the security of every one on the site.

If we all get back home after a desert trip, it's thanks to the marshals effort and despite that it's easy to forget, the desert is a very dangerous place. Without the organization and the team work, what is planned to be a nice afternoon in the dunes can easily turn into a nightmare.

Finally I would like to thank all ad4x4 marshals for the time and effort they are putting in, allowing us to have a very unique experience on every trip.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:25 pm

With all due respect, "Respect is earned not given". I would bet those who have earned it are getting it, those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time. Remember Iguana there are always two sides of any story, and decisions made with with only one side being heard is a bit risky. I think a good lesson for all would be to remember respect goes both ways.

Avan · Post by **Avan** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:00 am

Bumble Bee wrote:With all due respect, "Respect is earned not given". I would bet those who have earned it are getting it, those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time. Remember Iguana there are always two sides of any story, and decisions made with with only one side being heard is a bit risky. I think a good lesson for all would be to remember respect goes both ways.

In total agreement with Tom

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:43 am

Bumble Bee wrote:With all due respect, "Respect is earned not given". I would bet those who have earned it are getting it, those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time. Remember Iguana there are always two sides of any story, and decisions made with with only one side being heard is a bit risky. I think a good lesson for all would be to remember respect goes both ways.

I totally agree with you Tom, respect should be from both ways ... If you want respect, you also have to give it.

When a member is recommended to a Marshal, he is evaluated by most of the club Marshals (Who are coming from different back grounds and different cultures. He is mainly upgraded because he represent AD4x4. Leadership, knowledge, safety and problem solving are the main things we evaluate for a recommended Marshal.

A Senior Marshal is chosen based on decision making and problem solving ability. This is why their decision and comments MUST be respected.

I know all the club Marshals, I know how they think and I know how they act or re-act, in the mean time, I fully trust them and trust their decision and comments. Today's complain came to me from 2 Senior Marshals which I do fully respect and trust. I don't need the 2nd face of the story. I need to hear an explanation and an apology to what happened instead.

those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time

For the above comment, I will just say that those who received their orange T-Shirt received the respect and the blessing of AD4x4 Founders and Management so their respect is already earned

Time for the others to earn their respect as well.

Avan, what are you talking about???

desertdude · Post by **desertdude** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:18 am

First of all no disrespect intended at all,

But I think I will have to agree with Avan and BumbleBee on this one. I have no doubt about the sincerity and skill and the role the marshalls play in this club. But after all they are also Human and can possibly make mistakes after all it is human nature and no one is perfect. Could be they got caught up in the moment or something.

To come to a decision without even hearing what the other party has to say would be a biased one. Even a murderer has the right to speak in his self defense.

As a leader and founder you have to be just and fair to each and every member of the club on an equal basis, Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but just posting a small reminder.

I personally think the best way to resolve this matter would be to bring all the involved parties face to face and bring it out on the table. And If the said members truly are to blame then it is your right aswell as the marshalls to demand an apology.

Its better bring these things out into the open and finish them at their rooys. Rather them let negative feelings boil inside.

I know its hard to control everyone in a convoy. Trust me I know I use to lead 30 car convoys into the desert although all professional drivers but still it is an immense task to tackle.

Thanks and Regards

DesertDude

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:39 am

Desertdude, I agree, Marshals are humans and they do mistakes, I am not asking the members to listen and obey .. I am asking them to respect the Marshals during their discussion ...

I got a complain from 2 Senior Marshal about the way the member answered and reacted not that he didn't follow instruction

TINTIN · Post by **TINTIN** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:56 am

I have to say. I agree withe evrybody.

Iguana is right in saying that the marshals are who they are because of what they know. Of course they will make mistakes from time to time, but all who are not marshals have to respect their decissions and directions. They do know what they are talking about whether others like to believe it or not.

Also with the rest of the comments, if the problem was as bad as it seems then the two offended marshals, the two founders, and the offending member should sit down and discuss what happened and appologise appropriately, as not to make things worse, because we all know what its like to have people talk about us not to us.

I just think we should all smile, shake hands, admit our mistakes and tear the A$$ out of the desert as one big happy family!!!

Just my 2 fills

Wasabi · Post by **Wasabi** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:39 am

Well, everyone got a point!
The only thing I have to say is: We are a bigger family with many new marshals and members; we may face this problem many times during the coming season so let’s tackle this issue and pass on.
Do not forget, the club is based on family spirit and we have to work all together to keep it that way!

Wasabi

adiga · Post by **adiga** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:52 pm

Avan wrote:
Bumble Bee wrote:With all due respect, "Respect is earned not given". I would bet those who have earned it are getting it, those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time. Remember Iguana there are always two sides of any story, and decisions made with with only one side being heard is a bit risky. I think a good lesson for all would be to remember respect goes both ways.
In total agreement with Tom

In total agreement with you both,

Can one of you tell your story on line to all the members, we are all interested to know your point of view.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:42 pm

Sure I will gladly post it. First it is my understanding one must register for a trip this affords the trip leader the ability to make decisions on the route he/she will take, so at the meeting point I am informed of several Marsals who would be attending this trip one of which who would be late none of which registered. Rules and procedures only work if they are followed by everyone. First communication problem if informed of the number of cars on this trip I may have chosen an easier route. We started a trip as all others with a final destination being Al Katim due to the difficulty of second leg of the route we had a few stucks which slowed our progress but is to be expected as this is what off roading is all about, I personally felt up to this point everything was going well and all were having a good time.

It was decided that as darkness was setting in we should take a direct route out Jo addressed me by name over the radio and before I could answer one of the Marshals keyed in (this is interfering not observing no safety was being violated and he was not the leader of the trip) another communication problem. As I started to plot a route out I was directed by one marshal to have another give me the quickest route out to Al Kazana fare enough still no problems. As we made to the gate in the fence I proceeded on a direct route to Al Kazana as I approached the second gate in the fence Jo questioned the route then I am directed by Marshals to go to Al Faya Gas station. Guys I have never had any trouble following directions or orders just decide what directions you want me to follow. This indecision due to poor or misunderstood communication made the end of this trip look like a group of keystone cops. I have made this route no less than 3 times with as many as 6 cars without any problems. And to be honest until there was input/direction made by the marshals everything was fine. This is not the first time I have been given mixed/confusing guidance, but we are all human.

Guys I understand your need to have marshals observe members for your purpose of upgrading but they should not interfere unless safety becomes an issue at which time it is their responsibility to do so, and at that time they take responsibility of the lead.

As to the comment some of feel we are Elite, not at all but some of us are not sheep, we to have life experiences and do not just follow blindly anyone who claims to be a leader.

I would like to end this by saying I to am human and I take full responsibility for my anger, I could have handled this better, but if you guys are looking for yes men I will certainly not be that man.

Bumble Bee · Post by **Bumble Bee** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:47 pm

Sorry I forgot to say If you wish to sit at the table to discuss this I am always ready.

iguana · Post by **iguana** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:07 pm

Tom, please read my post again, I am not talking about listening to them ... I am talking about respecting them.

None of the Marshals here "Claim to be leaders" They are offroad leaders already but it seems that you don't feel so .. That's part of the disrespect.

You are an Army guy, Don't forget that a Marshal is 2 ranks higher than you and the Senior Marshals are 3 ranks higher than you ... So at least give respect to the rank.

The Marshals are the trip supervisors once they see 1% risk they should inform the leader. If they didn't trust your decision making, they have the right to take the group out of the desert or overtake the leading from you. However, they talked to you and passed their concern for you to decide and you didn't listen to them claiming that "You are the trip leader"

Threatening that you will leave the club because you don't like the way it's managed
comments like I am not angry, I am pissed off from the club are not acceptable over here and does not show any respect.

Marshals have the right to join any trip any time when ever they want and do what ever they feel correct. That's what they have been doing for the last 3 years and that's what they will continue doing. Again they are the management and the senior officers of the club, your Senior Officer in the Army will not take your permission to join your group, he just join.

Didn't like to discuss this in public, but as the subject is opened, I have to answer as well ..

One of the most important thing that you have to control to be a good leader is your anger .. next time make sure that you control it

mike0967 · Post by **mike0967** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:28 pm

Bumble Bee wrote:With all due respect, "Respect is earned not given". I would bet those who have earned it are getting it, those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time.

In principle I do agree Tom, respect is not necessarily given to a position but the one holding this position should earn it. The point is just that as an AD4x4 Marshal you have already earned the respect of the other Marshals, as they are the ones to agree on you to be one of them, and surely all Marshals will agree, that this decision is not done lightly or on a friendship basis, but on many points as said by Islam. Our family has more than 1000 members and when I post a trip and members sign up for it, I just cannot wait until I have earned the respect for my position by everyone in this trip, some may like me some may not.

Bottom line is that in an emergency situation most of the members will look at me with with a ? mark in their face expecting me to do the right thing now, because I am the Marshal. I am not the person who is taking decisions in a dark chamber, but I always try to consult with other senior members in the trip if time allows to do so, but sometimes it is not and we have to decide quickly for safety reasons.

None of us takes his job easy, we are all aware about the big responsibility we carry for everyone in the trip and his safety. We do this because we love our family and we do not do this for money. The ANIT trip yesterday was hard work for the team and I lost 1 KG weight during the trip

And yes Tom, with all due respect, I think we Marshals do deserve to be treated respectfully from all members, it is the members smile that is our payment, that's what we work for during out free weekends.

Just my thoughts for what they may be worth.

Mike

Jax · Post by **Jax** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:40 pm

My sentiments entirely Mike.

The orange shirt is not worn as a badge of honour (in fact it is the most uncomfortable shirt to be wearing in the desert) - but as a way we can be easily identified out on the sand in case someone needs us .... and yes, we marshals are extremely proud to be marshals and wear the shirt, to be promoting AD4x4 & it's ethics.
Tom, I'm sure you'll agree with your military background and training that in any organisation or club there have to be systems in place/officers in charge - and with that system, respect. If not, anarchy and chaos would prevail.
Look at some of our latest members and newest marshal from Dubai - there is a very good reason why they are now in AD4x4 club - because of the way AD4x4 operates and looks after the members in the club. I saw with my own eyes yesterday how other clubs operate and to be honest I think the club membership of AD4x4 would be a fraction of what it is today if we operated like that.

Bumble Bee wrote: ... those who expect it when they receive their orange shirt might be having a little harder time.

Tom, I'm not sure why you should feel that some marshals should get a hard time getting respect when they receive the orange shirt?
A harder time because of what?
Please, this is a sweeping statement and I for one would be interested to hear why you think it justified that some marshals be given or receive a hard time.

This is not intended to flame the situation any further, just to seek some clarification as to why you posted the above comment.

Peace and respect to all AD4x4 members,
Jax