Prothane progressive bump stops write up

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Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by SSS »

Prothane progressive coil spring inserts write up:

Wrangler TJ in my case :mrgreen:
EDIT: for Revision 2 (actual status) of the Wrangler TJ mounting hardware fast forward to :
http://www.ad4x4.com/club/viewtopic.php ... 30#p253524 !
In all other cases and if you want to know what it is all about read on from here.
:mrgreen:

For our dune bashing here in the UAE I was looking to add some speed bumps to my suspension. During my research I stumbled over a thread on NAXJA where some guys successfully used prothane coil spring inserts to avoid hard bump stopping. (They jump!)
My OME HD springs were still too soft in the rear where going fast through ditches was causing annoying kicks of the rear ...
(rebound effect)

As I was going to add some bumpstops for my coming 33" tires I decided to give the prothanes a try. I ordered a set of 2 x 10" inserts from jegs to be cut down as needed ... see below.
needed_01.jpg

The prothane instructions were recommending FLOATING (loose) install.
To protect the inserts from the upper BS towers or cups I decided to fabricate some covers ... (4 needed)
A thick 3" washer and a 1.5" piece of metal tube (38mm diam) welded together and sprayed with black barbecue rustproof will do
Just as a precaution I epoxied the snug fitting covers with marine epoxy to the prothanes (only upper cover needed)
needed_02.jpg

My actual 31" do not need BS extensions in the front with my N66 ... but in the rear I need 1.25" BS extension to protect my shocks (N67), tub (TB rel bracket) and spring from over compression (yes I have added 0.4" spacer)

33" tires would need 2" bumpstop extensions to avoid fender contact.
With a 1.25" BL (coming ) 1"-1.5" would be enough.

prothanes compress to 60-70% of original size ... so 3 rings (3.5") would compress to 2-2.5" ... to come down to around 1.5" BS extension I replaced the upper jounce bumper cups with some ACOS hard rubber bump stops I had lying around.
You can cut the PU micro cell foam coil spring inserts with a sharp knife to 3 rings.

Front:
front.jpg

For the rear I had to be a bit creative, as floating installation inside the rear springs would leave to much room for the inserts to tilt freely around.

The inserts (3.5" diam.) do NOT slide into the rear springs from top or bottom. So some lube and force and I was able to squeeze the rear inserts between the spring passes ring by ring. (unmounted springs!)

To limit the "degree of freedom" of the inserts I needed to increase the outer diameter with some flexible stuff which would not interfere with the springs.
Some creativity with AC pipe insulation tube (foam rubber) and some zip ties later...
Rear:
rear.jpg
RESULT : AWESOME ... During the Abu Dhabi Desert fun where our club was taking care of some transportation for the press the rear of my heavy loaded TJ was not kicking anymore and my stuff (water and fuel cans) stayed where it supposed to be
Speeding through the big and small (mean) dunes did not cause any hard bump stopping / rebound or TB rel bracket hitting tub or rear TB contacting gas tank skid.
Speeding over flat sandy "sabkhas" was possible with more than 60mph !!!

It was like having "endlessly progressive" coils in the front and rear!

You can "fine tune" the inserts by drilling some holes which will allow them to compress softer (and further) ... I did NOT do it, since I needed the extended bump stop dimensions and the softness was ok for me!

Maybe one more thing : I do not like to jump like the inspirers on NAXJA ... I cannot afford a breakdown in the middle of the empty quarter desert 50 miles from the next road or a roll over ... my driving style is more like "melted cheese on toast"

and here was the test area (LIWAAA :twisted: ) :
Dune_TJ_02.jpg
mine is the left one (midnight blue)
in the background MOUNTAINS of nice sugar sand ... sand surfers paradise
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Last edited by SSS on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by khaiwi »

Very nice sss...........
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by latief »

awesome write-up....question: if you are local here, how do you order from Jegs? I used to buy parts from them when I was in the US.....

I have the HDs on my JK with stock springs, sometimes the rear feels rather 'floaty': kicking is the word you use and it describes it pretty well....even during road driving, when i see some rough roads especially elevated manholes, i tell my passengers t "brace yourselves"....the other day (first time on the sand), in a certain area, the rear started oscillating back and forth and i started thinking " there go my shock absorbers...." :roll:
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by SSS »

I ordered simply by creating an online shopping account at jegs ... giving my UAE company P.O.Box as address and my mobile phone number.
checking out the cart will detect the "special procedure" necessary for the UAE ... MOBILE PHONE NUMBER :mrgreen: ... they ship through fedex 8-)

I paid with credit card online ... got a confirmation mail same day and a invoice mail with a fedex tracking number the day after.

I ordered on a thursday ... on tuesday I had the stuff AT THE OFFICE IN AD!!!

for the JK :
do the math first ... how much extended bumpstop do you need/want at the end?

generally on JKs: I can remeber that one of the axles is not bump stopping inside the coils (rear?!) ... so need to check how the coil mounts look like (how does the upper coil mount look like?) and if you can put the inserts there with no negative effects ...

but it is not an expensive experiment : a set of two 10" inserts will be sufficient and costs about 64$ plus shipping ... no comparison to speed bumps :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Last edited by SSS on Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by latief »

I need you to drive my car and tell me if i am imagining things.....
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

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any time after 7pm during the week, bro ... 050 220 5756
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by Abdoush »

sss, you r always the best in tech :)
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

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Abdoush wrote:sss, you r always the best in tech :)
:oops:
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by SSS »

UPDATE: Part 1

HEUREKA!

I found a solution for the rear inserts inside my OME coil springs!
(keeping the floating installation way but still have them aligned)
The problem with the rear inserts was that they were still tilting around in the rear springs despite the foam pipe wrap because 3 rings are 3.5" tall which is not tall enough. The diameter of the rear coils is a bit more than that...

before:
rear.jpg

The solution was so obvious but I did not think about it because I was fearing to loose too much uptravel (too much "compressed" size/too much final bump stop):

Make them taller and drill them!!! (of course the foam pipe wrap has to be used as well)
Theoretically you have to remove the same amount of material as added by making them taller ... to regain the same calculated compression size as before.
The number and diameter of holes can be easily estimated if you know how much e.g. 1.5 rings more weigh (the rest is up to you and individual)

"After" pics will follow once I have finished installation and tested my new idea

hey ... and I had one more inspiration:
NO NEED for stiff HD spring rates anymore ... I could go with softer OME coils for a even improved ride and add progressiveness as needed with the coil spring inserts which ideally (and softly) "bottom out" at the needed bump stop length. The distribution of the holes can even provide "multirate" coil springs now.
Highspeed swoosh ... I am coming :mrgreen:
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by SSS »

UPDATE : Part 2

new dimensions for the rear:

with my OME HD springs I used to have 3 rings inserts in the rear which were tilting because too short.

now 4 rings plus drilling (10mm x 12 holes) evenly distributed through the THIN parts of the inserts (the thick parts were to slippery to position the drill ).
Of course for the rear the foam pipe trick was applied as well, see previous pictures.
I am quite sure my previously calculated total bump stop has increased because I dared to remove more material eventually compromising the inserts integrity. AND BECAUSE I had slight tire/flare rubbing once wheeling two weeks ago it seemed appropriate :
IMG_0024.jpg

BTW : because of some slight adj. track bar diff contact in the front with 3 rings prothanes, I decided to redo the front the same way (4 rings and drilled)

For tomorrow the next wheeling trip is scheduled ... will keep you updated!
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

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UPDATE Part3: practical Test with some Marshals in Razeen yesterday :twisted:

prothanes revisited (after the "longer plus drill" mod):

A full day wheeling trip in the desert with high speed washboard tracks and dried salt beds on one hand and some technical dune climbing with tight technical flexing and huge side sloping and side cresting on the other hand revealed a smooth and absorbing suspension. Somewhere I read the famous "cloud of titties" image ... on sand with 9 psi in my 33x12.5 load range C tires and prothanes in the springs I had to think about this "cloud" all the time

I am pretty sure, that the increased spring rate in the last 2 3rds is limiting flex under just the car weight on a static ramp test, but with the moving momentum the prothanes DO GET compressed to the max. I had one slight tire rub with the plastic flare in a extreme whoop situation .
(so the stud idea of mxtrails would eventually make it pefect!)

And most important : the rear inserts stayed "aligned" ... yessss 8-)

so : I am happy now (if the inserts last for a while ...) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


my dune "crawler" ... more a pimped up sand surf board:
IMG_0025.jpg
IMG_0029.jpg
the front coil spring:
IMG_0026.jpg
the left rear:
IMG_0028.jpg
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by Hani AMJ »

Front & Rear factory bump stop replacment prothane build for Wrangler JK

they where made for Liwa rubicon, my self and khaiwi spent a few good hours in a machining shop in musafah and the result :D

the front fit in the coil while the rear replaces the factory bump-stop on the corners

coming soon is the version for the GQ patrol and also for the short wheel base
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by SSS »

kewwwl ! :rin:

you will like it! (hopefully) :twisted:
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by khaiwi »

Thanks to SSS for bringing the whole idea aboard and thanks to Antrax for his time end experience doing the measurement and spending time manufacturing the bumpstops.

I hope the rear ones will fit.
Did 650 Off Road trips so far (26- Jun-2022) and counting
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Re: Prothane progressive bump stops write up

Post by MalteJK »

Very nice!

Would definitely like to have these as well :D ... Any chance ?? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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