Help me build my stroker !!!

[ossme]

Soooooo, it is time for me to start gathering parts for my Stroker !

I know I know, I should post this in forums like Jeepstrokers.com. But it is important to place it here because you guys are more specific knowledge when it comes to building Jeep stroker engines in UAE.


My number ONE priority is Reliability. The last thing I want do is opening the bonnet in the middle of the desert ! I also don't want to run it on 99 octane SUPER Fuel !
My second priority is to have as much power out of the engine as long as it does not affect the reliability.
My third priority is not to over do it! I can start dreaming and before I know it the engine would cost more that AED50,000!

I'm trying to copy the medium Buck/high Buck/cybershot stroker recipes. This is what I'm currently thinking about. I need to find which brands I should be buying and from where:
1- 4.7L engine. Because 7 is my lucky number !
2- re-using my current engine instead of purchasing a donor engine. (or buy a new block if I decided to do it at home )
3- COMP Cams 68-231-4
4- Aluminum head ? How much more power that will give me in a stroker ? worth it ?
5- 62mm Throttle body (or should I go with 68mm?)
6- Forged Pistons. stock rods.
7- 26lb/hr injectors with Hesco Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
8- Griffin two rows Radiator (I don't like 3 rows). New/extra fan ? which type ?
9- which Performance chip ?
10- Current old style Borla header vs New Style 2000+ headers ? (I like the current one because of the low noise characteristics).
11- accessories ? (water temp sensor, spark plugs ... etc)



Parts Section (note: this section will build up as we go along with the discussion):

1- Jeep 258 Crank Shaft (QTY 1) : http://www.ad4x4.com/club/viewtopic.php ... 44#p194544
2- ICON Performance Pistons IC944KTM-060 kit (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-IC944KTM-060
3- Comp Cams 68-231-4 (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-IC944KTM-060
4- Mopar valve springs (QTY 6): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-5249464/
5- Mopar valve retainers (QTY 6): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4452032/
6- Mopar Valve Keepers (QTY 6): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4529218/
7- 26lb/ft injectors ?
8- Flowkooler water pump (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRA-1747/
9- JET 180 degree thermostat (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/JET-10170/
10- Roller Rockers (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-S40196/
11- ARP High Performance Series Connecting Rod Bolt Kits (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-112-6001/
12- Painless Wiring 62mm Throttle Body (QTY 1): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRF-65300/
13- Hesco Aluminum Clyinder head (QTY 1): http://www.hescosc.com/shop.asp?action= ... catId=7735 (keep dreaming ! )
14- Griffin 3" thick Sportsman Series Aluminum Radiator for Manual transmission (QTY 1): http://www.quadratec.com/products/51210_2113.htm
15- SamcoSport Silicone Coolant hose kit (QTY 1): http://www.quadratec.com/products/51207_641X_PG.htm

[mamoun]

all the best mate

[SSS]

If you want real good advice ... talk to Dino Savvas (ad4x4: DinoStroker) ... THE godfather of Jeep stroker recipes AND he is living in Al Ain!

He is active on http://www.jeepstrokers.com (register there and reeaaaaad )

and he has a website : http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/ REEAAAAD

I like the "modified" poor man's stroker recipe most ... uncomplicated (STOCK cam, stock Valvetrain) and not much less power than a 4.7. Most danger (to mess something up) lies anyway in the cam/lifter/pushrod/rocker/spring/valve combination !

update: I see Dino has updated his recipes !!! the medium buck 4.7 is around a CompCams 68-235-4 now ... with some additional ponies.
If not modified poor man's THEN THIS ONE

note: You need a crankshaft damper spacer like this one http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=det ... catId=7757 for my 4.2l crank!

Did you know that Tadmur AutoWorks/(Dubai!?)/Saint Louis!! seems to partner up with 505performance??? http://www.505performance.com/

[DinoStroker]

I'm trying to copy the medium Buck/high Buck/cybershot stroker recipes. This is what I'm currently thinking about. I need to find which brands I should be buying and from where:
1- 4.7L engine. Because 7 is my lucky number !
4- Aluminum head ? How much more power that will give me in a stroker ? worth it ?

I suggest you build a 4.6 (IC944KTM-030 kit) rather than a 4.7 so that you'll have enough thickness left in the cylinder walls for a second rebore should it become necessary. You won't even notice 70cc less displacement anyway.
The Hesco aluminium head isn't worth the cost in my opinion. Just port your own head.
The modified "poor man's" recipe is the most simple and cheapest to build 'cause the only non-stock parts you'd need are the 258 crank, IC944 pistons, and bigger injectors. If you want more performance though, I suggest you do this one:

4.6L low-buck stroker
Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.0L 6.125" rods
Keith Black IC944-030 pistons
9.6:1 CR
CompCams #68-231-4 206/214 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.020"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.050" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster for '87-'95 engines, Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
264hp @ 4900rpm, 324lbft @ 3500rpm

I recently altered the 4.7 recipe 'cause it was too similar to the 4.6. It now has a +0.020" offset-ground 258 crank (4681cc), 68-235-4 cam, 10:1 CR, more power, and costs more money.

[ossme]

Take your Pathetic I6 and go ask somewhere else ! this is a v8 ONLY FORUM !

Thanks man ! I'm already a member at Jeepstroker.com and I'm reading things there at daily bases !

oh, and thanks for the crankshaft damper spacer. I totally forogt about this ..

[ossme]

I suggest you build a 4.6 (IC944KTM-030 kit) rather than a 4.7 so that you'll have enough thickness left in the cylinder walls for a second rebore should it become necessary. You won't even notice 70cc less displacement anyway.

Thanks you for all the good info. I will be looking at the 4.6 stroker specs and update this page. The numbers provided are just what I'm looking for so I might not be going to a 4.7 after all.

The Aluminum Head is out of the list. I could use the AED10,000 saved for many other mods in the Jeep.

What about the cooling system ? should I keep it all stock or should I change the Radiator, fan, and water pump ?

[SSS]

Take your Pathetic I6 and go ask somewhere else ! this is a v8 ONLY FORUM !

Thanks man ! I'm already a member at Jeepstroker.com and I'm reading things there at daily bases !

oh, and thanks for the crankshaft damper spacer. I totally forogt about this ..

( you are still dreaming of that brapp braaapppp braaaaaappppppppppppp sound right? )
The only reason I personally did not go with a aggressive stroker is MY CRAPPY AUTOMATIC TRANNY! The 42RLE would not survive it ... whereas your manual is juuust fine, lucky you!

my advice regarding the cooling : DON'T swap in anything electric! Your heavy duty visco clutch fan is the best you can get for the desert!
You MIGHT want to look in a healthy 2(!) row aluminium radiator with large diameter tubes inside (>1"). But you get what you pay for ... DON'T cheap out with anything epoxy glued or so! (But with aluminium rads you need to fill in a DIFFERENT COOLANT, or it eats up your rad because of electrolysis! Your block is cast iron ... )
Actually a brand new factory rad, and a shortcut (no heater anymore) are quite goood!
Your early TJ might like the Flowcooler waterpump ... but it's impeller design got taken over by the later OEM waterpumps anyway. So a 2005 waterpump is just as effective and has better quality impeller materials!
Thermostat: it is important that you use a quality Thermostat ... the chinese stuff has too much tolerances/faults (opening temp, opening width/flow, no venthole for letting out air pockets)!

[DinoStroker]

What about the cooling system ? should I keep it all stock or should I change the Radiator, fan, and water pump ?

Since your radiator is 13 years old, it won't have the same cooling performance as a new one so I suggest you get a new stock replacement.
The stock water pump is fine but the Flowkooler is better and provides more coolant flow at lower rpm.
The stock viscous clutch fan is, IMO, little more than a 5lb paperweight that sucks horsepower from your engine without really providing effective cooling. I'd replace it with an electric fan/shroud that'll fit in the same space behind the radiator and have both electric fans wired up to switch on/off at the same time. I've been running such a set up for the last 11 years.

[MalteJK]

But if you go for an electric fan setup, use a fan minimum equally in throughput ... ( not smaller!!!! / less powerful ) I think it should be minimum 16 inch ...

[DinoStroker]

But if you go for an electric fan setup, use a fan minimum equally in throughput ... ( not smaller!!!! / less powerful )

Agree. It's a common mistake to fit a smaller fan only to find that the engine runs too hot at idle. The factory clutch fan is 15" so the replacement electric fan should be at least as big.

[SSS]

But if you go for an electric fan setup, use a fan minimum equally in throughput ... ( not smaller!!!! / less powerful )

Agree. It's a common mistake to fit a smaller fan only to find that the engine runs too hot at idle. The factory clutch fan is 15" so the replacement electric fan should be at least as big.

With all respect Dino ... the mere size is not the only criteria.
The stock TJ fan shroud allows for a clean fitment of a 18" (!!) mechanical fan ... and I have experimented in the summer with a 18" 9 blade Explorer fan with Hayden severe duty visco clutch as illustrated by some chaps over at jeepforum. (looooong discussion)
While it helped immensely at rpms >1200 (driving even slowly in the desert) with AC on ... the setup was not up to the task at idle rpms (700 rpm at traffic lights) to keep the engine temps constantly low in the summer with AC on!
while so many parameters play a role (fan shroud, # of blades, cut of blades, size of blades, position in the shroud, visco clutch specs ) we can reduce it to CFM@RPM !
additionally while driving at speeds > 40mph the fan setup should not BLOCK air (bc driving forces more air in than most fans can pull anyway!)

If anyone wants to go electrical it is widely agreed that a (not cheap) continuous fan controller and a multispeed electric fan are the way to go. Controller set up (programming) and thermostat behavior have to be fine tuned!!! The ONLY electric fan getting non disputed votes to be on par is the Lincoln Mark VIII 2 speed fan (can be found on ebay) with included shroud! (> 4500 CFM max!)
ONLY DOWN SIDE (if it fits between rad and crank pulley ) ... it pulls nearly 100(!) Amps when starting up from a dead stop and once it is up it still pulls more than all your other electric stuff. A heavy duty 160 amps alternator is the consequence ... fat gauge wires ... etc ... etc ... etc.

EDIT: I forgot about the Ford Taurus fan conversion for stock 4.0I6L and stroker (another nice combo which is even better than the flexalite 3300 CFM fan) ... The Mark VIII fan fits only with the shorter V8s

of course the total cooling surface and water flow of the radiator are other optimization dimensions ... and can be increased. But it is not that trivial ... same rad: more CFM needed. More cooling surface: less CFM needed.

So: The best bang for the buck is still stock ... or somebody does an experiment with the Hayden/Explorer 9 blade fan and a slightly smaller waterpump pulley which drives the visco clutch as well (will turn more at lower engine rpms) ???

[DinoStroker]

LOL, I was thinking of the XJ which has a 15" clutch fan and a smaller factory electric fan. The Wrangler set-up is different so you're absolutely right.

[SSS]

@ossme:

oh, and one more thing:
you might want to add a ported thermostat housing to your list ... hesco has one for cheap :
http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=det ... 3007&catId

or DIY like Tobias did ... but you might order from them anyway (high flow waterpump?, injectors?, spacer) , so

img-1.asp.jpeg

[ossme]

So, as a conclusion.. shall I keep the mechanical Fan or go electrical fan ??

Yep, the hesco High Thermostat housing is already in the list !

I'm trying to buy things from Summitracing.com to make the shipping easier.

I'm still depating on between going 4.7 vs 4.6..

Now, I now that what I'm about to say might get some people lost. So, try to read it few times please..

In the 4.7, all what I need from the stock jeep is the block and head right ?? almost, everything else will be aftermarket. Well, this might seems bad. But this will also mean that it will be easier to just buy the block and head from the junkyard and work on it instead of using the original engine. This sounds great for me since I can build my engine at my own home during my own time. Even if it takes me a month or two to do. It will not affect my desert fun!

The 4.6 will alow me to re-use most of what is there. Therefore it is cheap. But it will also mean that I have to stop the car to pull the engine out. I don't want it to stop for two months. So, I have to outsource it to a garage who can do it in a week or two ..

[DinoStroker]

So, as a conclusion.. shall I keep the mechanical Fan or go electrical fan ??
I'm still depating on between going 4.7 vs 4.6..

If you're going to swap in an electric fan, it'll need to be big enough to cover the whole radiator with its shroud and slim enough to fit between the radiator and engine. A fan that big (18") is likely to need a high amp draw so you might need to upgrade the alternator to prevent the battery from draining.
The only difference between the 4.6 (+0.030" overbore) and the 4.7 (+0.060" overbore) is the bore size. If you bore out the cylinders +0.060", you won't be able to rebore the block again should it become necessary and the difference in HP/TQ is too small to notice.