Project economic JK

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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MLC » Tue May 01, 2012 8:45 am

I think the heat reduction hood is a good investment - my car never heats up so I guess it's a bit more than something with only cosmetic value!
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by latief » Tue May 01, 2012 9:23 am

I believe that before investing serious money in an AEV hood or anything similar. you have a fundamental cooling problem that needs to be resolved...

i know you probably heard this/ know this by now, and sorry if it is repeated but if you have an overheating problem while driving, means you have a coolant flow issue (pump / clogged radiator). if you have overheating problems while idling/ or in slow traffic you have an air flow problem (fan/ obstruction). in custom applications such as yours, you might have a combination of both + radiator capacity issue.....

Get a griffin aluminum radiator similar to the one the use on JK hemi swaps.... it is pricey, but it seems to be one of the best solutions. also, relocate your tranny cooler where it is not blocking the radiator. i am assuming it is infront of the radiator? i have been reading about hemi swaps ( i know yours is different), but the griifin radiator seems to be solving the problem...also, those with a manual transmission don't have the overheating problem....

crazy idea: run the car without the hood in one of the trips, see if it overheats... :D
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Tue May 01, 2012 9:51 am

ossme wrote:Check with Ranger Regarding the AEV hood. I'm sure it will be much cheaper than that ! :)
BTW, you truck is blocking my spot in the Exhaust shop ! :evil:
Thx for the hint @Ossme, will do that & sry to block the way :mrgreen:
MLC wrote:I think the heat reduction hood is a good investment - my car never heats up so I guess it's a bit more than something with only cosmetic value!

hehe sure ... while i had the stock engine i didn't had this problem ;) ...
But yes i like the looks of the hood as well.
The best would be actually a combination of the TMD hood and the AEV hood.
I like the side louvers of the TMD hood ...
http://www.4x4rockshop.com/scripts/prod ... duct=14660
latief wrote: i know you probably heard this/ know this by now, and sorry if it is repeated but if you have an overheating problem while driving, means you have a coolant flow issue (pump / clogged radiator). if you have overheating problems while idling/ or in slow traffic you have an air flow problem (fan/ obstruction). in custom applications such as yours, you might have a combination of both + radiator capacity issue.....
I don't have any issue while idling or in slow traffic.
I don't have an issue while driving onroad at all.
I don't have an issue while driving in normal conditions offroad ( mixed use with temporary pushing ) .

I have an issue when i'm pushing the car into the limiter in 1st or 2nd gear for going above 4000 to 6700rpms continuously (i.e. hameem play area ... go from bowl to bowl to bowl to bowl to bowl ... ) so i cannot drive in "D" ... (actually because my tap shift is not working(yet), i cannot shift to something else then 1st gear - so i have to be in either "D" or "1st" while i can go nearly anywhere in 1st gear (due to my sub optimal gearing (3,73) the 1st gear goes up to 70km/h ... its a lot of useless high rev driving - i think 2nd or 3rd gear would be just enough most of the cases.
So it might be a capacity problem in the end ... but also and i think this problem is bigger ... an airflow problem.
My engine sits very tight in my car - there're only some cm left between engine block and radiator fan - so the air cannot flow that freely around as it should. Thats why i need better airflow.

The thing with the griffin radiator : its nice but big. Right now i'm a bit out of place. I think i need custom driveshafts so i can place the engine a bit more to the back so i have more place in front ...

I like the poisonspyder Hood louvers as well ...
and the H2 hood louver :) - so maybe i can source the h2 hood louver somewhere :)
Last edited by MalteJK on Tue May 01, 2012 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by Sean » Tue May 01, 2012 9:54 am

Malte, when we have you back??? been too long man...and for sure you have had a lot of fun with your car... ;) and more fun to come :D

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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Tue May 01, 2012 9:57 am

Sean wrote:Malte, when we have you back??? been too long man...and for sure you have had a lot of fun with your car... ;) and more fun to come :D
Sean, guess who's missing driving in the sand as well ... - hope to be an active part of team dubai soon again :geek: :mrgreen:
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Fri May 25, 2012 10:23 am

Ok for the sake of it :

jeep is broken again (suprise suprise) ... Once again the 6L80 and i think this time again they made something wrong while
reassembling it from the last repair.

On top of that the complete engine, gearbox and transfercase mounting will be redone (incl. new driveshafts) because i need more space behind my radiator (currently 1 cm only) . I wrote griffinradiators about my specific needs already and will order a nice custom 2 x 1,5 in alu crossflow radiator from them.

On top of that my hood got some custom louvers.

And finally the switch for the manual mode is there.

Summa summarum : I hope to have the beast back in the middle of June ... then capable of a lot of outside heat and with manual mode shifting ...

Oh and already achieved : the car is now super quiet :( and i have finally A/C .
Of course they did not do exactly what i wanted ... but anyhow it seems ok so far.
They've put 2 x 2,5 in tubes to the first muffler and then 2 x 2,5 until the catback where in front of the catback the 2x2,5 join together in one 3,5 pipe, then into the muffler from where they exit with 2 x 2,5 again.

I wanted a crosspipe and then a complete independant exhaust for each side ... but ok well it does the job.
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by Jayne » Fri May 25, 2012 2:54 pm

MalteJK wrote:Ok for the sake of it :

jeep is broken again (suprise suprise) ... Once again the 6L80 and i think this time again they made something wrong while
reassembling it from the last repair.

On top of that the complete engine, gearbox and transfercase mounting will be redone (incl. new driveshafts) because i need more space behind my radiator (currently 1 cm only) . I wrote griffinradiators about my specific needs already and will order a nice custom 2 x 1,5 in alu crossflow radiator from them.

On top of that my hood got some custom louvers.

And finally the switch for the manual mode is there.

Summa summarum : I hope to have the beast back in the middle of June ... then capable of a lot of outside heat and with manual mode shifting ...

Oh and already achieved : the car is now super quiet :( and i have finally A/C .
Of course they did not do exactly what i wanted ... but anyhow it seems ok so far.
They've put 2 x 2,5 in tubes to the first muffler and then 2 x 2,5 until the catback where in front of the catback the 2x2,5 join together in one 3,5 pipe, then into the muffler from where they exit with 2 x 2,5 again.

I wanted a crosspipe and then a complete independant exhaust for each side ... but ok well it does the job.
Ouch :( Look fwd to having you back in June..
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:18 pm

Ok ... you might call me crazy but ...
I'll exchange the 6L80e against a nv4500 ....

I already have a new nv4500 ... now i'm searching for a matching manual shifted transfer case with 32 spline input ...
Anyone ?

I was looking into an NP242 or maybe a Dana300 - both are known for being strong enough ... but both don't have a 32spline input per default - and since the 6L80e's 23spline output shaft already died once in my NP231 i thought i give it a shot and try to source a complete 32spline drivetrain assembly ( engine / gearbox / tc ) ...

My problem for now the matching transfercases (matching the gearbox) from i.e. the dodge ram 3500 or silverado 3500 have passenger side drop :( - and in addition those transfercases are computer controlled which is against my new concept of keeping the car as computer free as possible. Why computerfree ? Because it seems that even calibrating and adjusting the 6L80 is already too much for all those "experts" here. It failed 3 times in a row now after different shops took it to the "absolute gearbox specialists" in UAE...

So a manual has only mechanics ... Flywheel & Clutch will come from a 3500 hd as well (yeah i know a bit too strong maybe) ...

However. So anybody knows a matching tc ?
And another thing ... i'm still searching for the backup light switch on the 42rle i think its all controlled from the jeep ECM ... anyway there should be a way according to normal "manual JK's" - anybody has a wiring diagram ?
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by ossme » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:33 pm

Your issues make mine seems very simple ! :mrgreen:


I will try to help you by searching for a solution once I get home.. :)
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Current status: Blue 1998 Jeep TJ : AEV Higline Kit * Custom Viper GTS Blue paint job * Golen 4.6L stroker * AEM FI/C 8 system * Griffin 3" Radiator * Custom 2.5" "quite" exhaust system with MagnaFlow Aftermarket Catalyst and Dynamax Cut Back * NV3550 gearbox * B&M short Shifter for NV3550 * IronMan steering stabilizer * IronMan 2.5" Coils * Rancho 9000xl shocks * Front and Rear Dana 44 * Front RCV Performance CV shafts * Front Synergy Suspension inner sleeve * Front Black Magic Brake upgrade kit * Front Factory Rubicon Locker * Rear Factory 10 chromoly axle shafts * Superior Bolt on Truss Kit * Rear ARB locker * Motive gear 4.88 gears * BFgoodrich KM2 35x12.5r15 Tires * SPOD switch Panel * ARB Twin compressor * AEV Tummy Tuck * Currie Enterprises JJ Fully Adjustable Control Arms * Rugged Ridge angle Reduction * Rugged Ridge Rear Drive Shaft * Warn Rear Bumper * Mopar Rock Crawler Front bumper Warn VR-1000s Winch with Synthetic rob * Rock Hard 4x4 License Plate & 3rd Brake Relocation Bracket * Front and Rear AOR LED lights * Rugged Ridge All weather Floor mattes In Progress: Rear Savvy LED light with Custom Europe to US wiring conversion * Upcoming planes: Jarry Can Holders * 2.5 Gallon Smittybilt air tank with a secondary compressor Future Plans: Currie Enterprises Tie Rod kit * Mopar Rear Bumper * Front truck-lite LED head lights * High Steering kit * Hydro steering * King shocks * Racing seats * Cruise Control * Side armors * Sound and Heat proofing the interior * Interior Carpeting * Rust Proofing Fixing the A/C! :mrgreen:

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Re: Project economic JK

Post by SSS » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:05 pm

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_453.htm

... and regarding the reverse light switch on the 42rle ... the 42rle has a built in transmission range sensor which signals the pcm park/neutral/reverse and the gears ... I have somewhere a table ... lemme dig ... found it ... but print to pdf does not work from secured pdfs ... so here the screenshot of the pin out ... HEUREKA there is a seperate backup lamp feed :) :
but probably it is NOT VT/BLK (violet black) on the JK ... but the CAV 6 pin on the connector should be right ... so I hope they did not cut anything off :lol:
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:44 am

SSS wrote:http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_453.htm

... and regarding the reverse light switch on the 42rle ... the 42rle has a built in transmission range sensor which signals the pcm park/neutral/reverse and the gears ... I have somewhere a table ... lemme dig ... found it ... but print to pdf does not work from secured pdfs ... so here the screenshot of the pin out ... HEUREKA there is a seperate backup lamp feed :) :
but probably it is NOT VT/BLK (violet black) on the JK ... but the CAV 6 pin on the connector should be right ... so I hope they did not cut anything off :lol:
a great! Thx chafik ... that is what i was searching for - don't tell me you have the complete wiring schematics ( auch haben will :mrgreen: ) For the Novak kit - i know this kit already - i only thought that there might be a tc which comes per default with 32 spline input ...
So i can get spare parts on every corner for it. Otherwise it means i most probably have to get 2 of those kits with the luck i already had... with adapters and such...

So even i know novak makes pretty good stuff, i'd prefer stock 32spline input (i mean if there's no other way i'll most probably get a dana300 and convert it to a twinstick(http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/dana ... _stick.htm) as well of course and jbconversions also has a nifty input shaft : (http://www.jbconversions.com/products/d ... t_gear.php and besides that their adapter kit also sounds promising: http://www.jbconversions.com/products/n ... ret_29.php )

So anyone knows a manual transfercase with 29 or 32 spline input and driver side drop ?
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by SSS » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:02 am

have you searched at pirate4x4? if you are not registered and unable to use their search you can add pirate4x4 to your google search ... they get crawled! 8-)

and regarding the wiring diags ... YES ... it is a multiple thousands pages FSM for 2004 - 2006 :mrgreen:

the pdf is 33MB ;)

You know you need additionally something called D300 flip kit, right?

aaand

Advance Adapters have a Atlas II to NV4500 solution ... check out the torque ratings and the adaptability of the atlas ... and the best thing is shifting ranges without N :mrgreen:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... Manual.pdf

AND YOU WANT TO CHECKOUT THOSE GUYS!: :twisted:
http://www.tellico4x4.com/nv4500-transmissions.htm ... they have the AA NV4500 (GM and Dodge) to Jeep 231 adapter(s) as well ... w output shaft!

and btw ... more splines NE stronger (if same or slightly bigger shaft diameter and crappy material)
the shaft material and the spline cut are your ticket!


You know that a manual conversion implies a new manual tune on the pcm, a clutch pedal, hydraulic cylinders and lines, a heavy duty clutch kit, new tranfercase and adapter or just the adapter to the 231, new driveshafts etc. etc. etc.

oh ... and I really don't know why all this hassle ... the 6L80E crapped out ... the rebuilders and tuners here could not deal with it.
get a properly built one with tune! (instead of sending in your pcm you buy additionally HP tuners software from summit ... read out your pcm ... send the file to them ... apply the new file ... done!)
http://centurytransmission.com/super-6L ... sion-build
thats what all those supercharged camaro drag freaks love
and I am sure you can get a new billet outputshaft with the right length and spline count for whatever adapter and transfercase.

And why not go with a simpler and tougher race transmission with fully manual valve body :mrgreen:
all the tuners have to do is completely remove torque and shift management fro your PCM (easier then fine tune all the shit!):
http://www.finishlinetrans.com/transmissions/index.htm great reputation!
http://www.gmentransmissions.com/gm-che ... tinum.html another great builder!
http://www.extremeautomatics.com/transm ... 4l80e.html
pick your choice :twisted: some of them have billet shafts :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
(you notice that they are happy without the 6l80e? there is a reason! with bumped up power the 6l80e likes to weld clutches and steels together, needs a complicated tune adjustment and has a useless 1st, otherwise its a coool tranny ...
here a guy who drove both : his remarks make sense 8-) http://ls1tech.com/forums/14951286-post10.html)

if you want to save money ... keep your 231 ... get a JB 231 HD wide kit ... and keep your driveshafts (the 4l80e is only 0.25" longer than the 6L80e). I am pretty sure a built 4l80e with a upgraded shaft/HD231 comes cheaper than your junkyard manual/dana300 experiments and is much tougher! (the nv4500 swap is parts plus labor plus experiments plus burnt clutches!)

If you want monster all you need is a atlas behind it (built 4L80e or built 6L80e) and a custom output shaft and you will have a bad axx kick axx monster drivetrain (until you find the next weak point :lol: )
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:29 pm

SSS wrote:have you searched at pirate4x4? if you are not registered and unable to use their search you can add pirate4x4 to your google search ... they get crawled! 8-)
and regarding the wiring diags ... YES ... it is a multiple thousands pages FSM for 2004 - 2006 :mrgreen:
the pdf is 33MB ;)
You know you need additionally something called D300 flip kit, right?
 

yes sure i did - hm maybe not long enough :D - will do it again.
SSS wrote: aaand

Advance Adapters have a Atlas II to NV4500 solution ... check out the torque ratings and the adaptability of the atlas ... and the best thing is shifting ranges without N :mrgreen:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... Manual.pdf
yes a properly built atlas2 would be an option as well.
This things are known to be rock solid. If the D300 doesn't work out, i'll get a custom atlas2.
The D300 is gear driven as well btw. so no problem with cracked aluminium housing or bent chains ...
SSS wrote: AND YOU WANT TO CHECKOUT THOSE GUYS!: :twisted:
http://www.tellico4x4.com/nv4500-transmissions.htm ... they have the AA NV4500 (GM and Dodge) to Jeep 231 adapter(s) as well ... w output shaft!

and btw ... more splines NE stronger (if same or slightly bigger shaft diameter and crappy material)
the shaft material and the spline cut are your ticket!


The point is i want to avoid custom adapters as much as possible. I know that the NP231 has its input limit around 400lb ft and i'm easily above that. Sure i can put jbconversions wide chain kit and the 6 Pinion Planetary Gear in my NP231 ... but then i still have the 23 input and output shafts so if i put everything together i am in the range of > 1500 $ already.
And then i still have only a chain driven tc ... in my opinion a gear driven D300 or if available a NP205 (if found with driver side drop) or an atlas2 is the better option.

The 23 vs. 32 spline thing ... yeah sure if the 23spline is a chromoly super hardened high end steel and the 32 is an old crappy weak unhardened mussafah steel ... then the 32 spline is weaker... no :) ?
SSS wrote: You know that a manual conversion implies a new manual tune on the pcm, a clutch pedal, hydraulic cylinders and lines, a heavy duty clutch kit, new tranfercase and adapter or just the adapter to the 231, new driveshafts etc. etc. etc.

hehe oh really ? Yes sure i know. And yes i need a complete clutch assembly with clutch pedal, main cylinder and so on and on.
Still this is mechanical and can be build with stock parts so i'm not expecting a lot of hassle here.
SSS wrote: oh ... and I really don't know why all this hassle ... the 6L80E crapped out ... the rebuilders and tuners here could not deal with it.
get a properly built one with tune! (instead of sending in your pcm you buy additionally HP tuners software from summit ... read out your pcm ... send the file to them ... apply the new file ... done!)
http://centurytransmission.com/super-6L ... sion-build
thats what all those supercharged camaro drag freaks love
and I am sure you can get a new billet outputshaft with the right length and spline count for whatever adapter and transfercase.
In fact the 6l80 is a stoud transmission - and it should've been able to handle my v8. Anyway the thing is the programming and calibration.
I still haven't find a guy in UAE who really knows what he's doing when programming an 6L80e ... And sending the unit back to the states whenever i've a problem is out of discussion.
As well i really need the tap shift feature - and since the guys are also not able to supply me with either a matching shifter
nor a simple up / down switch... I'm finished with that idea.

I need to control my gears - a 4L80 will not help me much on that task only maybe if i get a motech computer & stuff ( i've seen a guy with a 4L80 and up&down shifting with a motech computer only so far )
SSS wrote: And why not go with a simpler and tougher race transmission with fully manual valve body :mrgreen:
all the tuners have to do is completely remove torque and shift management fro your PCM (easier then fine tune all the shit!):
http://www.finishlinetrans.com/transmissions/index.htm great reputation!
http://www.gmentransmissions.com/gm-che ... tinum.html another great builder!
http://www.extremeautomatics.com/transm ... 4l80e.html
pick your choice :twisted: some of them have billet shafts :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
(you notice that they are happy without the 6l80e? there is a reason! with bumped up power the 6l80e likes to weld clutches and steels together, needs a complicated tune adjustment and has a useless 1st, otherwise its a coool tranny ...
here a guy who drove both : his remarks make sense 8-) http://ls1tech.com/forums/14951286-post10.html)
Btw. the 1st is absolutely not unusable in fact its a 4:1 ratio ... with my engine this is going quit well on my 3,73 R&P and up to 70km/h in 4hi - but then i really want to shift to 2nd / 3rd... but yeah ... ok there we are again at the beginning of the topic.
SSS wrote: if you want to save money ... keep your 231 ... get a JB 231 HD wide kit ... and keep your driveshafts (the 4l80e is only 0.25" longer than the 6L80e). I am pretty sure a built 4l80e with a upgraded shaft/HD231 comes cheaper than your junkyard manual/dana300 experiments and is much tougher! (the nv4500 swap is parts plus labor plus experiments plus burnt clutches!)
The 4L80 might be tough ... but the HD231 is not as tough as a gear driven D300 or a gear driven NP205 (http://www.jbconversions.com/reviews/sh ... 005.12&p=1 and http://www.jbconversions.com/reviews/sh ... 007.01&p=1 ) . The NV4500 is specified for 800NM so its much better then the 4L80 which is specified for 600NM (same same as 6l80e http://www.gmperformancedivision.com/co ... ations.pdf )

But the thing is again : i am searching for a way to use as much stock parts as possible due to the lack of real turning shops and fabricators in UAE...
SSS wrote: If you want monster all you need is a atlas behind it (built 4L80e or built 6L80e) and a custom output shaft and you will have a bad axx kick axx monster drivetrain (until you find the next weak point :lol: )
yes an atlas is also an option. But still i am really fed up with automatic gearboxes. I hate the 42rle and the lack of control. The 6L80 had everything i wanted from a gearbox except, that nobody was able to tame the beast in here ... so really i think the manual is the way to go. Even then i don't have to worry about additional oilcooler and so on... and i gain the control. I am not afraid of having a manual in the desert ;) and for sure i will burn my first clutch a bit faster then the next one ... but ok this is part of the game then.

So thanks for the input ... it seems everything concentrates around the TC right now ...
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#white nissan badroll(stuck) ( 2012-2013 )
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by MalteJK » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:28 pm

Ok - besides all that i found a TC : a NP261 ;) ... so i just need to check if it already has the fix for the oilpump issue...
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#white nissan badroll(stuck) ( 2012-2013 )
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Re: Project economic JK

Post by SSS » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:43 pm

MalteJK wrote:Ok - besides all that i found a TC : a NP261 ;) ... so i just need to check if it already has the fix for the oilpump issue...
:shock: has slip yokes? :shock:
(and a chain!)
chafik the SilverSandSurfer
"The more I know, the more I realize how much I don't know."
THE THUNDER Status: http://www.ad4x4.com/club/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15808

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