Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

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Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by Adsonic » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:19 am

Morning, it has been a while since I posted here. So, hiiii everyone :D

Now let's talk sand dunes. I've go a 93 GMC Yukon with the 350 TBI and I've been thinking of squeezing few more ponies.

So what do you recommend, go Super Charged + rebuilding the engine or go with an engine/trany swap specifically the L92 (think Cadillac Escalade and Denali ... I think H2 also) with this option mileage and reliability are a major factor over the SC.

All in all, the trany will get beefed up to handle dune bashing.

The total cost I'm willing to spend is roughly around $2K, so let's hear your thoughts.

P.S: I will still have the TJ, but this will be another type of rig.
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by Gladiator » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:54 am

Those cars like a fat man not athletic type man :D
They are built for a Texas ranger to feel the engine power muscles and feels good. :D they are NOT built for dunes. ..they can't take the summer heat we have ,,, save your money. Or spend it on your TJ. It will worth more

:mrgreen:
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by scotchyl » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:12 am

Also aren't there recent rules where they will no longer allow engine swaps etc to pass muroor.
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by Adsonic » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:55 pm

Gladiator wrote:They are built for a Texas ranger to feel the engine power muscles and feels good. :D :mrgreen:
My thoughts exactly, but you said it better. And that's my friend is why I'm love'n it :D
Gladiator wrote:they are NOT built for dunes. :mrgreen:
I agree, and that's part of what make projects challenging and exciting.
Gladiator wrote:Or spend it on your TJ. :mrgreen:
Currently I'm more than happy with the power under my feet, an LS engine and a 3 speed trany :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajvkhilj5lA
scotchyl wrote:Also aren't there recent rules where they will no longer allow engine swaps etc to pass muroor.
Over here we can still play, tests are way behind in these regards :twisted:

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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by SSS » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:46 pm

the 350 tbi engine can be a monster ... quite some aftermarket support.
It is already there ... and all electric stuff and fuel lines and fuel pressure fit. I would rebuild and charge ... bad axx :twisted:

The Gen III+ engines are much lighter and much more power and basically an easy swap if you get the right harness and pcm and a returnless fuelrail ... but you need to address fuel pressure/pump/regulator ... and gauges :)
Try to avoid electronic throttle/pedal and seperate TCM setups.
A full aluminium LS1 out of a caprice 2000-2002 would be cheap and great (I used one for my TJ)... a 5.3 LM7 out of a silverado great too ... checkout ls1tech.com for all kinds of retro swaps :)
A 4L65E tranny is easiest ... a 4L80E is super beefy and can be built to handle 800hp :twisted:

And re regulations : After so many allowed/not allowed phases ... it is ALLOWED here (again... since last week) ... so last restrictions were probably due to National Day fears.





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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by SSS » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:19 pm

ok ... if I think about it again:

rebuild and charge your 350 TBI IFF:
- you have a good engine builder
- you are able to dial your AFR in under boost (fully tune with wideband and dyno)
- all this is cheaper than a GenIII swap.

swap to LM7 or LS1 IFF:
- you want 320 plus hp in stock form (with HPtuner OR EFIlive and intake header exhaust mods you easily could get another 30 HP ... with addtional CAMs another 30 HP)
- you want to limit your project to easy standard work :)
- you want to burn less fuel
- you want to tune all kinds of auto transmission behavior :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
- you want easy/cheap replacement supply chain if you blow your engine or transmission for some reason.



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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by wwadi » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:14 am

CHafiq,

are you sure of the reinstatement of v8 swaps rule ? also i assume no cutting or welding to the frame mounts rule still applies, correct?
as i recall you mentioned a few months ago muroor was working in conjunction with YAS race team to legalize welding to the frame.

How did you find out of the new rule ? did the muroor personnel inform you ?

let me know bud, this si nteresting and awesome news....!!! :twisted:


cheers,

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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by SSS » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:48 am

wwadi wrote:CHafiq,

are you sure of the reinstatement of v8 swaps rule ? also i assume no cutting or welding to the frame mounts rule still applies, correct?
as i recall you mentioned a few months ago muroor was working in conjunction with YAS race team to legalize welding to the frame.

How did you find out of the new rule ? did the muroor personnel inform you ?

let me know bud, this si nteresting and awesome news....!!! :twisted:


cheers,
I got a clear SMS from the shop who did the swap ... 6->8 is possible again ... one week after National Day.
I assume they MUST know, since they are dealing with such "issues" daily for customers.
(oh ... and I heard of several Patrol conversion going through as well)
And yes ... the "frame no mod" regulation still stands.

Regarding that YAS race team / engineering group information... it turns out, that there are PLANS to initiate a qualified "speciality test" group and to charge extra for modified cars! But as everything here: info on PLANS slip through ... and the implementation takes time.
Until then we have to live with a situation based approval/disapproval I think ... just avoid any test date which is close (1 month before?) National Day?!

I hope this is helpful ;)

ciao
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by Adsonic » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:35 am

SSS, thanks for the feedback. I really enjoyed reading your comments.

As for which route to go, it will be LS series engines. As now I might go with an LS1 and Turbo charger it a bit, only a small boost :twisted:

I thought of the LS1 due to the simplicity and sheer support out there. Don't get me wrong I love the L92 but I'm finding it very hard to get good info on them or good power add-ons prices as the LS1s.

Now a new question, where is a good shop in UAE that can do such a swap? I'm hearing good things of a garage called The Kuwaiti (lol I know). I want to compare prices between UAE/Kuwait/KSA

I know UAE are #1 but lately I'm starting to hear great comments from KSA (mainly Riyadh and Damam).

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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by SSS » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:50 am

I did mine at AlYasi/7Performance (Hisham +971 566017303) in Mussaffah... as of GenIII+ internals and powermods he is reaaaallly good.
(In old times they had their own veeery successful Tal Moreeb monster ... today they are more into Yas Island drag races )
He can do turn key projects or you supply all parts (like in my case) ...
But he usually gets support for the nitty gritty electrical/AC/tuning stuff from outside ...
If you want a blower or charger and to build the block and the head accordingly ... he is the man!
(Most likely he will do a hybrid 5.3/LS6 thing for you ... strong block, and aggressive head :twisted: )
For real good tuning I recommend Dyno King (Muhannad Mahrous) in Dubai :twisted:

I know of Al-Aasar as well and of Patriot ... cannot say much about them.

If you are around ... give me a call (+971 50 220 5756) 8-)
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by Adsonic » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:37 pm

Thanka SSS, I was just off the phone with Hashim, he's sure a nice guy. At first he threw me few curve balls just to see if I know my stuff and was serious about it or just a wana-be wasting his time. After sorting that out we talked about the project.

It was clear that the L92 was the most difficult option to go with, doable, but difficult. LS1 was a good choice, but he recommended another engine. The LQ4 from the Silverado pickup, supercharge it and then mate it to a 6 gear manual trany. It will deliver what I'm looking for and it's the most straight forward install compared to the other two routes.

Now I'm studying all those option and I feel in the end it will all boil down to:

what I can find? and for what price?

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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by SSS » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:42 am

kewl ... glad you have a communication channel with Hisham now.
Surely he knows his stuff ...

hehehe ... the LQ4 (6.0) is the next best iron block after the LM7 5.3 ... so my assumption about choosing a strong iron block for forced induction was right. Don't forget to address the "rest" of powertrain and drivetrain ... 500ish and mucho above hp will be easily doable :twisted: (forged internals? HD shafts?)

I am no fan of the manual transmissions behind so much torque and power though ... can break a lot of things besides clutch, shafts and stuff.
A built 4L80E would still be my choice ... if needed with manual valve body.

Oh ... I forgot ... budget USD 2000 ... (INCLUDING Turbo???) ... hmmmmmm ;)
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by Adsonic » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:27 am

SSS wrote:Oh ... I forgot ... budget USD 2000 ... (INCLUDING Turbo???) ... hmmmmmm ;)
The trick here is to stay calm and wait for the perfect deal to pup-up on for sale sections. You can't believe how much you can save when you buy somewhat close to what you intended to build in the first place.

SSS wrote:hehehe ... the LQ4 (6.0) is the next best iron block after the LM7 5.3 ... so my assumption about choosing a strong iron block for forced induction was right. Don't forget to address the "rest" of powertrain and drivetrain ... 500ish and mucho above hp will be easily doable :twisted: (forged internals? HD shafts?)
Now with the money I will be saving buying a pickup engine, I can throw in a CAM and head work. And prepare for SC at a later stage.

SSS wrote:I am no fan of the manual transmissions behind so much torque and power though ... can break a lot of things besides clutch, shafts and stuff.
A built 4L80E would still be my choice ... if needed with manual valve body.
Yes the 4L80E could be rebuilt to be bulletproof (though it does cost to do so), but a manual could be a nice choice if you handled it correctly. Plus you don't need to worry about overheating. Although I hate it when they jump out of gear while bashing the dunes, talk about bad timing.

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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by SSS » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:37 am

uhh ... btw ... I can see Interco Trxus STS on your truck in the pic.

Do you buy them locally (in Kuwait?) or do you have to import them yourself?

How do you like them?

Thanks!
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Re: Supercharge an SBC engine or go Third Generation LS engine

Post by MooD » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:30 am

Hi Abdulla ..... Its Been a While since we've met In Kuwait And Here in AD ;)

Yalla Come to Abu Dhabi and Will Arrange A trip for You ;)
Are you Ready For Action with MooD.....

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